Thursday, May 16, 2013

RE: When They Come For Your Guns

I enjoyed this Hoss USMC video. Like most things his perspective is well thought out and logical. Dude just makes sense.

Here are my thoughts on the video:
1) It should have been titled "IF They Come For Your Guns". Personally gun confiscation is pretty low on my list of concerns. Though if I lived in Kalifornia, New York, Chicago, etc I might feel differently. Simply cannot see that happening in most of the US. Anyway moving on.

2) People are more important than things. I can get another gun much easier than I can recover from lethal wounds. This is made much easier conceptually if you have backups, in this case guns with ancillary stuff, stored someplace other than your home. That brings us to Caches.

3) Caches. Like I talked about before you have to consider the context of a cache. In this case I would look at the type of people you might store things with first. Like John Mosby said more or less "Hiding crates of Mosin Nagant's in the basement of the Gun Club's President is not a sound plan". An ideal candidate to cache some stuff with would be either for your cause but very quietly so or relatively neutral about it but very pro you and thus willing to help you out.

In terms of proximity a cache would need to be far enough away from you to be unaffected by the event that concerns you but close enough for you to get to if that event happens. Obviously a cache of guns buried 5 feet from your house or stored with the next door neighbor is a bad plan. On the other hand a gun 2,300 miles away isn't very helpful either. Somewhere between a mile and a hundred miles is probably a good way to go. Of course that is just a rough idea. Obviously a quarter mile from home buried in the state park would be fine. Political boundaries are also a consideration. If you live in California a buddy in Oregon/ Nevada/ Arizona would have some real benefits. Ditto for Cook County, Ill and Pop's Farm in Cornville.

Of course like any other cache appropriate planning and preparation is required.

4) Bait Guns. While I have my doubts about how unwinding all the the NCIS and ATFE 4473 mess for all guns on a national scale but lets just say that happened with some degree of effectiveness. In any case unless they are literally going block by block, door to door searching homes the folks knocking at the door probably know you have some guns. It would probably be a hard sell to convince them you do not have a single firearm. At a minimum that would likely garner unwanted attention. Since you want them to leave, not get deeper into your life, that is bad.

Awhile back Maine Prepper had the excellent point not to try giving them a broken rusty BB Gun and saying it is your only gun. A more realistic option might be a handgun as well as a shotgun / .22/ rifle. The first advantage of this plan would be you have these guns in the home prior to this hypothetical confiscation. A rifle to go hunting, a pistol and shotgun to defend your castle, whatever. If these are basic guns they can be very functional but had purchased at modest costs; particularly if you can buy them when opportunities arise. An old .38 and a Mosin Nagant or pump shotgun could be had for under $500. Aside from the benefit of having more quality guns now you can show them what they expected (which is to find some guns) getting them out of your hair. The second benefit would be that you are meeting their expectations which will get them out your door faster.

As to the rest of your guns? If folks are just doing a door to door search they came and found (or you handed over, whatever) your bait guns then I'd keep my mouth shut. Talking as little as possible around Cops is not a bad idea anyway. On the other hand maybe somehow they unwound all or part of the NCIS/ 4473 mess. At this point they are asking about the Glock 19 SN 12345 I purchased on 9 June 2008 at Shooters in Columbus GA. This rather unlikely scenario is one of the biggest reasons to buy paperless guns.

Well in most of the US private sales are currently legal with no requirements for documentation or going through an FFL. A plausible lie that would be very difficult to disprove might be the order of the day. I sold a bunch of guns a few years back: when I was getting stationed in Germany, was out of work for a few months, needed money when the Mrs got pregnant, had to fund a move from Ohio to Kansas, realized I hadn't hunted in years, swapped it for auto repair on a car that's since been sold etc or something else plausible like it fell out of the boat on a fighting trip, was stolen and you mindlessly forgot to report it, lost it in a poker game or whatever. The point would be to choose something that would be plausible and generally matches with some known facts from your life, yet would be just about impossible to disprove. I like events years in the past that occurred in other areas. Sure if the proverbial federal 'eye of mordor' shifted onto me they could try to track down an older shade tree mechanic from Kansas circa 2009 but in a mass confiscation scenario that would not get run down. I suppose this would be easiest for somebody who hasn't bought a papered gun in years that has also made a big move or two. If you've always lived in the same town and bought an AR-15 last summer it might be a bit harder to be convincing and vague at the same time.

It is also worth noting that you would want to rid the home of ammunition, accessories, etc for guns you are hypothetically claiming are no longer in your possession.  I expect a mag or box of ammo in the back of a closet could be explained away. However huge stacks of ammo cans and dozens of AR-15 magazines  and Glock 17 magazines for the guns you claim to have sold/ whatever would be a hard sell.

So anyway those are my thoughts on that. As always your input is welcome.


Aesop said...

You're assuming they're going to follow their laws, and that their only intent is to get the pieces of hardware.

That's foolishness.

The mere possession of the gun is the crime, which makes you not just a criminal, but a dangerous one who's got a broken soul, as they understand such things, and it's far better and easier from their perspective to just assume you're unsalvageable, collect you and yours up, and throw you all into the gefangenenlager, or the sausage grinder.

Once that becomes clear, it'll be a wee bit too late to E&E 1 to 100 miles, dig up your bangsticks, and give a worthy account of yourself. Which they kow, and it's why they're far more likely to be rounding up gun owners than guns, if either one becomes the open plan.

I would suggest thinking outside the box, or you'll end up inside one.

Assuming honest motives and playing by the rules from those who would strip you of your fundamental human rights is a hopeless wager.

Ryan said...

Aesop, In the video there is a clear distinction between a scenario where guns are being taken and one where people are being taken. I look at it the same way.

Mayberry said...

"When" is correct, not "if". History is repeating itself right before our eyes. It is not "conspiracy theory". It is the Weimar Republic, the Reichstag, and the rise of Hitler with the Bolshevik Revolution all wrapped up into one.

Lose the "it can't happen here" Stockholm Syndrome. It IS happening here. Been paying attention to the news this week? IRS being used to intimidate/silence opposition? Flat out lies from the administration exposed even by the MSM??!!! Don't be naive.

Aesop said...

I understand that, and I share that philosophy.
The problem isn't what (or whom) they're taking. It's that they think they have grounds to come to the door at all.

Thus once they're on the porch (or stacking up alongside it) it's too late for such niceties.

Anonymous said...

I'd submit that it's not really your guns that they want. Guns are the legitimizing pretext for generating a conflict with you, invariably resulting in your arrest, prosecution, and 'yes', confiscating anything & everything they fel like with impunity.
t's all "evidence", you see.
And this is where the 'bait guns' come in. Because they're disposable, you're not going to contest surrendering them, the conflict they're seeking is diffused, and you continue on, now on high-alert for a follow-on move.

Remember that you're under no obligation to tell them anything. Sure, it peaks their curiosity, but if they're come to your house, it isn't because they're pretty sure you're already guilty of something. Lying to an agent is a felony. Refusing to cooperate is your prerogative.


Anonymous said...

"it *is* because they're pretty sure you're already guilty of something."

Anonymous said...

"Shooters in Columbus, GA". :)

Ryan said...

Mayberry, Nice to see you here. Hope all is well in your life. Certainly see your point. I have some thoughts and will share them later.

Snoop, Exactly.

Grasshoppa, I liked that place. Blue Box Glocks, plenty of affordable range ammo and the indoor range to shoot it at. Well at least a few years back anyway.

Anonymous said...

The concept of "paperless" guns can be misleading. If the person you got it from knows who you are, or if a person knows you have it, it may be paperless but it may come with a memory attached, ya follow?

People blab and that's a fact.


Anonymous said...

YeP, I've been known to do a little trading there myself.

Ryan said...

H, I do agree not all 'paperless' guns are quite equal. A gun bought at a gun show or whatever is probably more useful in this regard than one bought from your buddy on the local PD.

Another area where moving around a lot is convenient.

Grasshoppa, Well played!

Anonymous said...

My personal opinion is burying guns is nothing but a defeatest attitude.
If the government is going door to door confiscating guns,thats the time to make your decision,are you going to say no or give them to them.If you bury a gun what are you going to do with it?
The only reason to dig it up is to fight.You might as well make your stand from the beginning.
It we don't we're all guilty of being keyboard commandos.

Anonymous said...


When the Nazi's occupied Poland, they went door to door and confiscated all firearms. However, knowing that anyone who owned a firearm oould probably figure out a way to get another, and might decide to use it on them; they also rounded up all firearm owners, and put them in forced labor camps, where most died. Since the Germans knew enough to do this over 70 years ago, isn't it likely that any future assailant would apply that lesson as well?

Aesop said...


The key word in "gun control" is "control", not "gun".

Kind of like how the Great White Shark will accept the mackerel, but what he really wants is the guy inside the cage.

Which is true either way you look at that sentence.

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