Tuesday, March 31, 2015

Bucket Cache Discussion Continued

From my post on the planned Bucket Cache I got some good comments. From others it seems apparent I did not explain my concept of use clearly. I will reply to the comments below. Comments will be in bold and my replies will be in italics.
Unknown said...
I've done this and think it's a great idea. I have several buckets and a couple bags at various friends houses. Cheap kit that's theirs if they need it. All I really added that you don't have is a change of clothes (several weights of socks) and a rain jacket of some sort. I also tossed in a couple of those draw string style backpack/gym bags that I obtained free from various places. That way I can carry the gear if I'm without my regular kit, or a second person can divide the load with me.


 Ryan here: A bag to carry the stuff is a good idea. Depending on space in the bucket after I add the planned stuff a set of clothes is a decent idea. 
Jamison said...
Don't go with the Tampons or anything of that ilk for a medical kit. Just as cost effective and actually works are ABD pads, 7.09$ prime shipping from Amazon. There are quite a few studies out there that advise people not to use feminine hygiene products for trauma. Tampons and Pads are used to soak up the blood and clot it internally where as an ABD pad and gauze are made to speed clotting.

Kerlix or Rolled Gauze, ABD pads and Gorilla tape are all low cost and effective first aid supplies. They might cost you a little more than a box of tampons but it works so much better. Throw in some triangular bandages with safety pins, a couple of pairs of gloves and you have a good low cost medical kit that you can make work for a lot of trauma situations.




These three items are what a little over 30$ from amazon and you can make six kits out of it, Two kerlix rolls, two Triangular bandages and say 4 abd pads, wrap some duct tape around a Bic pen (Cut pen to length) or a hotel key card, add a key ring or small carabiner to use with the triangular bandage as a windlass for an impromptu tourniquet. Seal in a zip-lock or vacuum bag, say 10$ top per kit for a good basic trauma setup. 

Ryan here:  1) My planned medical budget is like $3. I have an IFAK in my primary gear so the traumatic injury piece of the medical kit is an after thought. All joking aside I will look at budget options before going completely white trash IFAC.

tweell said...
Some oatmeal, rice, lentils, split peas and/or beans - cheap food.
A small pot from a garage sale or dollar store.
Basic spices.

Ryan here: I fear I didn't explain my plans correctly. I am not looking to hang out for any period of time. My goal is to have enough consumables to eat a good meal, maybe lie up for a few hours and then walk for another day.

In terms of food I am looking at calorie dense stuff that is ready to go but better if you heat it up. Something like a couple each of canned food, top ramen, oatmeal and tuna. Also probably a dozen granola bars for go food. I will not have the time or energy to boil up a pot of beans.

Anonymous said...
5 pounds flour, pint powdered milk, salt, baking powder - make bannock, gravy. Gill net - sure way to get fish. A few rounds of ammo for each of your weapons. Fire starter kit. Knife. Oil for weapons. Small tools. 

Ryan here: See the last post. I like where you are going for a survival cache but this is much more of a resupply of consumables to go a few more miles. As to the food I'm not going to cut a nice stick, start a fire and make some bannock. Heating up some ramen or chili is about the max amount of effort I would consider. As to the gill net I am not looking to sustain over the long term. Do not need tools to gather food, I need enough water and calories to get a few more miles down the road. 
Anonymous said...
I'm thinking a good multi-tool over a tool kit, though a small pair of ignition pliers is a very versatile lightweight addition. The string pack idea likewise is good - you want something that appears 'sheeple friendly'.

Maybe a couple of 5 hour energy shots ? I don't know their shelf life though. A water filter straw would also be a wise choice as well.

Good ideas above - thank you for the post! 

Ryan here: I'm not too worried about tools past a knife as my concept of use is on foot. Agree an option to carry the stuff is a good idea. A couple 5 hours or some caffeine pills is a good idea I will use. 
TEOTWAWKI Blog / Alexander Wolf said...
A lot depends on your route/plans. Traveling over land through forest/swamp would be different from traveling through urban or suburban turf, etc.

Distance / time needed to sustain you would be important.

Most of the time, you'd have your vehicle with you - at least to start out. Make sure at least your vehicle kit is squared away before worrying about caching stuff. Your vehicle = a cache on wheels.


Anonymous said...

Hey, Ryan, I don't know why you asked for "thoughts" when you already knew what you wanted.

You may never get home, pard, but good luck with your 5 hour engeries and MREs.

Flour, bannock and lard lover.

Jamison said...

I finally remembered where I had read a very comprehensive article not in favor of using feminine hygiene products for fist aid. I normally wouldn't link to another blog but here you go for your perusal.


I think that you scale down on what I suggested to fit your budget. Maybe make more kits to have around.

Jamison said...

Also reading your last comment.

"The general flow of my Emergency route is mostly through commercial (lumber) forests, near some small hobby farms and nearby a village or two. Depending on the exact situation I might go through more efforts to stay out of the villages."

First, let me start by saying that I live in the wet side of Washington and have a lot of experience doing cross country on foot in timber lands. I will say that it is a strait B**** to get around on foot. I'm guessing that you have worked out your route and traveled it before. I know that you are probably going to expend more energy and time then you think trying to get through those areas. Have you considered having a PACE plan for going on foot? Also I would probably plan to go through villages at night and stick to trails and roads to get home faster as a primary plan. Also learn the forest/company service roads through your area, they are generally easy to walk and damn near deserted except when someone is working on them.

Theother Ryan said...

@Anon1037, I asked because sometimes people come up with great ideas I have completely overlooked. The caffeine idea was great.

I am not saying the cache type you talked about is a bad idea at all, it has plenty of merits. I do have some more 'OMG everything has gone to hell and I have no choice but to live out in the woods' oriented caches in mind but they would be in different locations.

Jamison, To the first part. Thanks for the post. Now that I really get to thinking about it I probably have enough stuff lying around to put together a fairly conventional, albeit not super Gucci with a $40 CAT T tourniquet, trauma pack. Thanks again.

To the second part. First of all I'm an Infantryman and have done my fair share of walking around, including in this AO. Second I intentionally kept my description of the route pretty vague to protect my own personal OPSEC. Suffice to say I plan on very minimal brush breaking unless a situation got unexpectedly violent very quickly (think Walking Dead).

As to redundant plans for foot movement honestly I didn't bother since there would be so many possible variables it would get indistinguishable. Within say a mile wide corridor there are a ton of options. I am good with a map and compass so I'm not worried about getting lost.

Aesop said...

To the original concept: buckets one day's walk apart, and stocked with two day's food each. Which means you can take a friend, or acquire supplies as you go, rather than deplete them, or leave half behind for another return trip. And you never know when your ideal spot turns out to be right under someone else you'd rather not bump into, and need to quietly go on to the next one. A second day's supplies each stop gets you that option.

Canned goods generally have 5+ yr shelf life, esp. buried a foot or so down. Below the frost line, it's always about 55 degrees or less.
Frost and frozen ground probably isn't a problem for you there, until it is. Floods, a bit more so.

So you're looking for geocaching locations that are secure, will remain undisturbed, yet accessible on foot or from nearby roads, not on low ground, and not skylined either.

You're essentially making yourself a safety net (grid?) that would allow you to go onwards, or offset in another direction.

I'd also figure the foot-borne time factor from points A to Z; that'll tell you how many buckets minimum.

Going with your Concept of use:

At your route midpoint(s), I'd plan on a multi-bucket array. You might make it home, only to find out that option is blown for whatever reason. So several buckets, with food, shelter, clothing, tools and weapons, etc., laid out in a geometric pattern (so that someone finding one bucket wouldn't compromise all the other eggs not in the same basket) would be a good idea.

Probably with the latter in a site that would make a decent patrol base lay-up for more than a day, whether you were using it to get home, or using it from home to keep an eye on your AO after the fact.

If you wanted to get fancy, you could also consider several low-cost buckets near each other but somewhat dispersed at each spot, so that you could direct some like-minded friend/relative/ally to one bucket, without burning up all of them, in case they were either inbound or outbound.

It's belt and suspenders.

So per bucket, I'd go with canned chili and stew, tuna, hard cookies and candy, ramen or minute rice, carb bars, matches, spare steel/flint/magnesium, fuel tabs, water purification tabs, spare batteries, a sharpening stone, weapons oil, a box or three of appropriate cartridges, personal meds and first aid expendables, including topical antibiotics and antidiarrheals, chapstick, sunscreen, and bug juice.
Spare socks. 550 cord. Sewing kit. Hotel/travel-size toiletries and a roll of TP. Spare poncho/space blanket/woobie.
OD 90MPH tape.

You could source about 90% of that at the dollar store for a tad more than a $20 bill, except for the ammo (and seriously, I doubt you'd be rolling from gunfight to gunfight, but unless you're on fire or drowning, there's no such thing as too much of that).

In other words, exactly what you should find in your field pack every time you open it in the field anyways, just more of it.

If you were worried about it, a spare compass, another decent but low-cost blade/tool. Maybe some snare wire or fishhooks and sinkers.

At the base camp point, one entire ruck's worth of stuff, possibly including the ruck/LBE, and distributed in functional groups per bucket (food, water, shelter, fuel, tools, etc.) around 4-8 separate buckets, and maybe including a bivy bag, and probably another e-tool, folding saw, and a hand axe or heavy machete with a mill bastard file.

And someday, when it's less of a financial burden, in someplace you can be sure of, and check on without contaminating or digging up every year, a spare rifle/pistol/shotgun/.22/main blade, and cleaning gear, mags, spare parts and ammo for same, packed for long-term storage.

Just in case.

And of course, something you could round up in a day in good times when your next PCS comes through. ;)

Aesop said...

Ancillary random thought, totally unrelated to the Bucket Cache (which is an excellent quick/dirty regeneration option):

Route recon.
What railroads do you cross?
What bridges?
Walking or bicycling the routes in different seasons is a good way to get way more familiar with a route than driving it, along with doing a GoogleEarth map recon. Including a better appreciation for how long it would actually take to hump it, at varying levels of discretion and opsec.

Bridges and over/underpasses we take for granted, until they aren't there.
Like when the last big earthquake here got 10,000 of them yellow-tagged UFN.
And chemical-laden trains derail during disasters with a tedious frequency.
Powerline cuts are great shortcuts, unless the problem is the power being down, and perhaps the local constables and/or power co. commandoes looking really hard at the guy in cammies moving along the cut.

Pineslayer said...

I need to make more cache's. The 5G bucket is a perfect fit for most everyone.

If placing at a friends, say in a garage or basement, keep the outside dirty-ish, write on it something like, Waste Tranny Fluid or Dirty Diapers. What Fed agent or burglar would want to look in it? Use your imagination.

Rourke said...

Ryan - I may have missed it but are you plan on burying this cache? I searched through and couldn't find a reference to this.

I have seen a lot of good ideas here and would go along with Aesop on his suggestions.

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