Saturday, April 25, 2015

The Semi Automatic .308 Rifle

I have been thinking about a semi automatic .308 for awhile. Now that I picked up the little .380 a semi automatic .308 is the only decent sized remaining hole in my battery.

The .308 rifles are expensive to purchase and more expensive to feed.  They are also heavy and none of them are especially common. That niche market has been split between the M1A, FN-FAL, HK G3/ PTR 91 and the AR-10.

I do not have the time or energy to discuss all of them. The M1A is stupidly expensive and one can argue the M14's legend is actually a myth.

The FAL is a fine rifle, at least the decent ones (Genuine FN, Springfield and DSA) are but they are expensive and so are their mags. Even a Century knock off runs a grand these days.

The PTR-91 is a solid rifle at a very aggressive price point often under a thousand dollars. Being honest aside from collector value they are probably as good as a genuine HK. Commander Zero favors the PTR-91. Even today the mags are around 4 bucks a pop.

The AR-10 has so much promise but it has been a train wreck off a platform. Many of them suck and there is a complete lack of standardization. The Army adopting the M110 SASS (Knight SR-25) may help in time. Some of them work but they are big time expensive. The new DPMS Hunter G2 shows a lot of promise but isn't really tested, might have proprietary parts (I don't know), and they don't really make a configuration I am in love with.

There is promise now that folks are generally moving to the M110 style and Magpul is making mags for them. However I do not think it is quite there yet.

Here is what Max Velocity think. Max Velocity talks about the semi automatic .308 rifle. 

American Mercenary has a Siaga .308 which he pairs (smartly) with a Savage Model 10. I have toyed with a similar rifle in 7.62x54R just because the ammo is about a quarter a shot but it would add another caliber which is a problem. Ultimately I decided I'll just stick with .308.

In general semi automatic .308's are big, heavy, low capacity and expensive. Also the ammo is heavy to carry so most people end up bringing less of it along. While not optimal they can be used for close quarters work.

On the plus side the .308 hits hard, especially at range, is good at going through cover/ vehicles and can be used to legally and ethically hunt medium to large game. Also since their ammo fits most 'precision' rifles you can have two rifles and only need to stock one type of ammo. The combination of semi auto mag fed anti personnel capability with hunting and long range capabilities make it, in my opinion, a useful rifle to have. Also if I was stuck in a 'one rifle' situation a .308 like a PTR-91 would bring a lot to the table.

Next year (or sooner if I stumble into a wad of cash) I will probably purchase a semi auto .308. As of right now I feel like the best option is a PTR-91. Thoughts?


Anonymous said...

DPMS makes as good an AR platform .308 as you can buy. I have a couple. Uses a common, easy to find 20 round magazine. Out to 600 yards they are tack drivers. Past 600 yards, buy a .308 bolt gun. The heavier .308 round is a beautiful thing - one round on target for a no questions asked DRT is a more than a sufficient trade-off. One .308 round or 4 or 5 rounds of 5.56. Close quarters or reach out and touch - a .308 doesn't care.

Old Soldier

Commander_Zero said...

Although it seems like the tail wagging the dog, one way to look at the equation is to examine the available logistics and back into a rifle. That is to say, examine what .308 magazine is most available and affordable, what accessories are most available and affordable, what spare parts are most affordable and available, and what ever gun those things mate up to...well, that might be the gun for you.

Excluding some really oddball stuff like a BM59 or Galil, the most common .308 MBR platforms are going to be the G3,M1A,FAL,AR10 and maybe the odd AK pattern.

At the moment (and thats a key condition) the cheapest mags are the G3 mags and the cheapest spare parts are the G3. I would guess after that its FAL parts and mags, then AR10, M1A then the AK pattern.

The G3 (or HK91 or PTR91) has mediocre ergonomics but I'd take them over an M1A. The AR10 has awesome ergo from its AR layout, but its a newer platform and parts are often exclusive to the maker...a Ruger AR10 may not share the same parts with a DPMS AR10 or a Rock River AR10, etc. Mags are also kinda unstandardized with some using modified FAL mags, some using modified M1A mags, some using proprietary mags, etc. The FAL is my first choice for its proven track record, surplus parts, ease of maintenance, and good ergo...drawback being price since there is no real choice except a real FN or a DSA (or Springfield)...everything else being a crapshoot in terms of quality. I'm not even going to mention the Saiga because while I respect the AK system, a .308 AK is going to be a really tough beast to find parts and mags for.

Put another way, if you had $1200 to spend, you could get an M1a and maybe two or three mags, an entry-level DSA FAL and a handful of mags, an Ar10 from a major manufacturer and less than ten mags, or a PTR and about 40 mags.

Personally, I prefer the FAL but since I need to stretch every dollar the PTR gives me a good gun and a mettric buttload of magazines. Yeah, the ergonomics leave a bit to be desired (but theyre far better ergonomics than any AK that ever lived) but I can work with that through practice.

If I had the money, I'd get a nice DSA and fifty mags but according to DSA's website just the mags would be $20, vs. $3 HK mags at CTD. Knockpoff M1A mags are $20 while genuine Springfield mags are twice that. Perspective: $100 gets you 5 FAl mags,6-7 Saiga mags, 5 M1A mags, 3 Springfield mags, 3-5 AR-10 mags (depending on rifle brand), or 33 G3 mags. On average, one AR10/M1A/FAL/Saiga mag gets you 6-10 G3 mags.

Of course, who cares about how cheap the mags are if the gun isn't any good? The PTR's had an issue a while back with shooting surplus ammo that was sealed with tar (this meant a lot of foreign [and some domestic] military ammo) could gum up the flutes of the PTR and cause extraction issues. I'd seen this happen, so it wasnt just a myth. PTR eventually corrected the problem. They incorporated the changes before the company moved to South Carolina, so if you but a South Carolina made gun you can be assured it has the newer design. Older guns made before the move also had the newer design but the serial cutoff is a little fuzzy. Any of the Connecticut version with 'GI' in the serial will be the newer style. In short, if you get the guns that have the newer fluting cuts you can rest easy. On the bright side, that was the only issue that Ive ever seen reported with these guns. Other than that, they are quite awesome and reliable.

As I said, if I had about $2k to spare I'd buy a nice DSA FAL and about fifty mags. For that price, though, I could get a PTR and over 300 mags.

Oh, and that whole thing about the HK design eating your brass so you cant reload it? Hogwash. They reload just fine.

My $0.02

Anonymous said...

I agree with the M14 myth, but not the FAL myth. Every country that has used the FAL in combat (Britain and Argentina in the Falklands, Israel in the Yom Kippur War) has replaced it IMMEDIATELY afterwards....

The FAL fanboys will say coincidence - I say so?

Anonymous said...

The DPMS G2 works. They have some proprietary parts but most are interchangeable with the AR15 platform. The recoil is also very manageable for a lightweight 308. I have a recon and my only complaint is that it is a 16 inch barrel, I wish it came with an 18 inch. Give them a serious look.

Theother Ryan said...

Zero, I think we are on the same boat in terms of train of thought.

@5:16, The FAL is a good rifle for sure. Just at a hard price to stomach.

@7:27, Proprietary parts do bother me. Mostly the issue with the G2 for ME is that it just doesn't come in a configuration I like. If they made an 18"recce without the silly stuff that jacks up the price or a plane jane 20" heavy barreled A4 type it might be a different discussion.

riverrider said...

have 2 no name fals, never a problem one. might be getting another today if a deal works out like i plan. yeah, its heavy and frankly i plan on using it in defense mostly or if i ever need to ambush a convoy, lol. i haven't found mags to be any more expensive than ar mags of quality. good luck.

Anonymous said...

i have both a M1a and a HK 91. i'll take the M1a if i had to choose. HK shoots fine once you learn the shitty trigger, but its always there and the safety is ill placed maying it hard to work fast, either on or off. Both shoot well, but the HK mostly likes 150 grain or so bullets, the M1a not so finicky. plus the M1a has lots of accessouries available, stocks, gas blocks, etc.

Jerry C said...

I’m in the same boat with most of the thoughts here… In short, I have two DPMS units – one is a ‘heavy barrel’ and the other is a free floating barrel – both are 18” – 10 to 1 twist.

This part may make you a bit sick, but it proves a point – if I use the cheap WOLF ‘combat grade’ ammo, I can still reach out accurately (within 3” of dead center bulls eye – my 3 round shot group is approx. 5 to 6 inches) at 450 yards with the heavy barrel, and 600 yards with the floating barrel.

In the short version, with the floating barrel, I can hit consistently within 3” of ‘dead center bulls eye’ at 725 yards using PPU145FMJBT, PMC147FMJBT, & Aguila150FMJBT. I’m hitting paper (18” square) at 950 yards with a 3 round shot group of approx. 7” using various grains of 180 and higher… I’ve had the best performance using boat tail ammo.

I intentionally shoot and ‘learn’ about the ammo off the store shelf for a factor of reasons… I had one instructor hold to the position that “ shoot what’s available as long as it’s available until something else becomes available…”. In that case, you need to have a good understanding of the various rounds available and their limits when being used in your equipment….

In short, I have found that with my floating barrel, the vast majority of rounds – (with the exception of WOLF) regardless of the manufactures that I shoot, will shoot within 3 to 4 inches of each other at 400 yards and I don’t need to dope my scope – just use the existing mil dots and elevate accordingly –

I do not shoot in competitions – therefore, I’m not attempting to have 3 round shoot groups inside a quarter – I shoot for what my instructor calls “combat accuracy”. Enough said on that…

I’ve heard several complain about using ‘steel casings’ (WOLF) and how it makes the rifle jam after so many rounds… for me, as long as HOPPE’S bore cleaner is around, I’ve never had a single jam.

For the money and my own personal experience, I’ve had nothing but good luck with the DPMS AR10 platform…. To each their own….

One other note: I also bought a 22 oz. 8 vent muzzle break off of 5/8 24 and it made all the difference – before the change over, it would take me several seconds to re-acquire the target in my scope, but after the addition of the break, I was actually able to stay on paper and often times, stay on the black of the paper… wonderful… a well spent investment…. Granted, it makes the platform heavier , but well worth it…

Anonymous said...

I had the saiga .308 and sold it because it wasn't fun to shoot, was expensive for magazines (including addressing 922 issues), and was too heavy and too inaccurate to be a do everything rifle. It wasn't a bad rifle (I was pleasantly surprised by the 3 MOA accuracy it did have); it just didn't solve enough problems to not grab the money I could get for it--sold during firearmaggedon. I'm in exactly the same spot as you in wanting a semi-auto .308 but have about decided to wait until someone makes an AR10 that isn't more than twice the equivalent 5.56's cost (50% more seems like a more reasonable premium), which I personally think is only a year or two away--magpul's entry into that magazine market makes me think they see greater demand ahead. Have caught myself wondering lately whether a 300 upper or sks might not be a cheap stopgap in case I develop a sudden need to take out bambi--the only need I'm worried that my 5.56 might not comfortably handle (thought it could probably do if a necessity).

Maybe I have too much faith in the American industrial complex, but I feel we're where we we're a couple decades ago with ar15's and that a light, soft shooting, almost-as-accurate-as-a-bolt gun, and inexpensive ar10 is right around the corner. I actually think we've pretty much got the first three with careful shopping. YMMV.

Jerry C said...

Just some additional considerations from my own experience concerning bolt action verses semi-automatics with a 308…

The 5.56 may be light and you can carry a lot of ammo verses the .308 but, in the penetration factor – there’s no comparison between the 5.56 / 223 and the 7.62 / 308.
At 100 yards, the 5.56 / 223 will NOT penetrate ¼ inch soft steel plating while the 7.62 X 51, 54R AND even the 39 casing WILL cut through ¼ inch soft steel (literally) like butter – leaving the prettiest copper ring around the edge of the hole. At 300 to 400 yards, the steel will start to bulge and increase with distance, but the round still penetrates.

My personal preference is the semi-automatic – for me, the reality is that you simply don’t loose enough energy down range to make that big of a difference in the kill shot.

Here’s a fun fact – the energy of a 308 at 1000 yards is still 1.5 to over twice the muzzle energy of 357 magnum being shot at a target at point blank range… if you need more energy than that at a ‘down range’ target regardless if you’re shooting bolt action or a semiautomatic… you might want to go to a 338… another wonderful round…

All in all, comparing high end 308 manufactures to lower end manufactures (which many will claim my DPMS’s are) is like one guy bragging about his FORD and slamming GMC, and vise versa… it truly boils down to what fits you and the amount of money you’re willing to spend… and the end goals of what you’re wanting to accomplish…

3rdman said...

"in the penetration factor – there’s no comparison between the 5.56 / 223 and the 7.62 / 308."

You might want to read this!!!

Unknown said...

Remington makes a lightweight semi-auto hunting rifle in a variety of chamberings including .308. I think that it is still down in the three figures for a new one. There are used ones available for less. Personally, I think that I would prefer a good, simple, inexpensive bolt action such as the Ruger American. The trick to being fast with the bolt is to use the Tommy Atkins technique of working the bolt with two crude, fast swipes of the right hand up and back and then forward and down rather that four slow, deliberate strokes used by most Americans. For cost and reliability, you might go with a good British Enfield chambered in .303 British rather than .308. Ballistics are very similar. Handload for cost-feasibility.

Peter said...

A few comments.

1. H&K G3 rifles (the original version of today's PTR-91) were common in southern African wars, thanks to being the Portuguese Army's standard issue rifle in Mozambique, Angola, Cabinda and other colonies prior to independence. I handled a lot of them in the operational areas in Angola and South West Africa/Namibia. Most were beaten half to death by then, not very reliable or accurate, and they didn't have a good reputation among our infantry compared to the South African R1/R3 (FN/FAL manufactured under license). However, the few decent examples I saw were reliable. I found them heavy on recoil, though, and the triggers were uniformly lousy. If I got a G3/PTR-91, I'd badly want an aftermarket trigger to make them easier to shoot accurately. Does anyone make such a trigger - Timney, etc.?

2. .308 is an excellent all-round cartridge in an environment where you're likely to have to deal with larger animals, people, vehicles and the like. In the USA, I'd regard it as a natural choice in bear country, the Rockies, Alaska, etc. However, it's also heavier and bulkier to carry, making it less optimum in an anti-personnel role if you have to move a lot on your own two feet. There, 5.56mm. is a lot more infantry-friendly. You can carry 300-400 rounds of 5.56mm. for the same weight as 200 rounds of .308, and you can choose premium 5.56mm. ammunition to make it more hunting-friendly (e.g. the Nosler 64gr. bullet). I think that makes the 5.56mm. a better option in areas where dangerous or large game isn't likely to be encountered.

3. Long range shooting: the 5.56mm. has effectively matched the .308 long ago in terms of accuracy. Look at the service rifle matches to see what I mean. Terminal ballistics, of course, favor the .308.

4. I think there's a lot to be said for commonality of platform if you may have to share your weapon. Most people know how to run the AR-15/M16 pattern rifle/carbine. I think that gives an edge to the AR-10 platform in .308. However, if sharing a weapon isn't a priority, then I agree that almost any battle rifle will do.

5. I place particular importance on being able to mount a sighting device such as an Aimpoint, scope, etc. My eyes are getting older, and I can't use iron sights as easily as I did during military operations in my youth. For that reason, the ability of my weapon to accept such sights and other accessories is very important. Among the current crop of battle rifles, that gives the edge to the AR-10 or the FN SCAR (for the wealthier people among us).

Jerry C said...

Thanks 3rdman, I went and reviewed the article you suggested about penetration factors of the 308 verses the cinder block… I’m looking forward to trying this test out for myself… cinder blocks at 75 yards and a cardboard target behind it – and not being able to hit the target? …. Something just doesn’t seem right about this unless it’s a possibility that the FMJ is flattening out and then fragmenting after penetrating the first of what is essentially two walls and then unable to go through the second… that’s only a guess since I haven’t tried this test. But I’ll be trying this one out myself…

However, I stand behind my “claims” of what I said the .308 can do with ¼ inch soft steel plating – I know this for a fact – since I conducted the tests myself with both an SKS, Sig 556 and DPMS 308 – I have the plates to prove it.

Peter, I agree with you on all your points – especially your third point. I’m way too old to have served for the Afgan theater, but one man in particular whom I’ve worked with for several years now is a vet of that AO and his experience preference is definitely the 7.62 / 308. He was telling me that one of his ground pounding buddies was able to hit a target easily at 350 to 400 yards using the 5.56 “…but after a few minutes, the target was able to get up and run away….” While on the other hand he would hit a target at those same distances and the target “stayed” down…

While I have two AR15 platforms and enjoy them very much, I much prefer the AR10

Theother Ryan said...

1) I agree servicable PTR-91's are probably just fine rifles and have heard the trigger issue before.
2) Agreed. I am decently vested in the AR-15/ 5.56 platform. Do not intend this to replace the AR but am looking at a niche item to put a lot of big holes in things at some distance if I need to.
3) 3 5.56 can absolutely shoot as far as .308. That being said at distance 5.56 is good at putting holes in paper but not so much at putting energy into a target. Granted I would not volunteer to get shot with 5.56 at 500-600 meters but, especially with standard MILSURP type ammo, the performance of 5.56 is not optimal. Conversely .308 can definitey put someone down at long ranges.
4) I agree and wish there was an industry standard for AR-10's though the M110 is getting us there. In a few years I suspect a standard will appear and a couple of proven and sanely priced rifles will be available. At that point I might just flip whatever I get in the meantime and get that new rifle.
5)Agreed. An optic is essential for my concept of use. From a conceptual level I think a variable power like a 2.5-10 would be excellent. In a good (LaRue, etc) detachable mount I would have the option to take it off and still hold zero.

Anonymous said...

Makes me wonder how my dad, uncles and cousins helped win WW11 having to carry the M1 Garand, 9 1/2 pounds and the BAR, 20 pounds (about 43 pounds with bipod and the 200 round belt full of loaded magazines. 30-06 they were.

I didn't get my chance until Korea. Same old same old, M1 Garand, best rifle ever made.

How'd they do it? Killing Japs and Krauts? They were men.

Nothing wrong with the .308, I've got several. Now if you guys will just get this show on the road I'll be much obliged. I'll pack my own ammo (4 bandoleers, 192 rounds in 8 round en-bloc clips, 13 1'2 pounds) to feed my M1 Garand.

I'll be on the ridge watching, on the lookout for platforms and such.

I'm just north of 80, my hearing is about gone, too much rifle shooting, but my sight is just fine.

Damn, I hope they get a real rifle for my grandsons, otherwise they'll be on the ridge with me. I've got some.

Vijay Sharma said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

The PTR for the reasons you cited sounds like a good choice. The Saiga also has some good options, but the parts problem - not easy to overcome.

I chose the Garand (both Standard and Tanker) in .308 for mine, but this was way back in late 80's / early 90's when HK91, M1-A and FAL ruled the .308 roost, not many other choices. I'm a fan of the Ruger semi-autos, and the commonality of these and the Garand is a big plus. Parts and en blocs were relatively inexpensive (back then) so I'm okay as is.

Heavy pigs the Garand are, but most any .308 military pattern is going to be heavy anyway. I am thinking of putting a scout scope (or red dot) sight on the Standard, leaving irons on Tanker.

Good luck with your choice.

Meister said...

I do not like the PTR/HK 91 rifles. I've owned 91's and 93's and have found them more suited to collector guns than useful items. They are abusive to fire and are not very adaptable for the common man.

The features you are looking for; Adaptable with interchangeable parts, standard mags, accurate, decent longevity, and deployable at less than $1k. 1k just isn't a reality for a quality standardized semi in 308.

The Smith and Wesson M&P 10 seems to be the closest to affordable in a quality rifle. This platform should fit the now standardized AR10 platform parts on the market currently. It is by far the best value in the market. No hokey rock in mags to slow reloading, no finned chamber to wreck your brass for reloading, vastly more upgradeable than any other platform, and at 7.75 Lbs, light enough to carry with you.

Theother Ryan said...

@11:06, The lack of a detachable magazine and inability to readily scope put the Garand out of the running for my concept of use. That being said for one with significant experience with the rifle I see it's continued use as a fine idea.

See you on the ridgeline old friend.

Meister, If I can wrangle putting a box each through the usual suspects to try them all out I will definitely do so. One of the reasons I find myself gravitating to the PTR-91 is they are so aggressively priced without falling off a cliff AKA Century FAL/ CEMTE style. Beyond that $1200-1500 is probably a more realistic price range even if you are keeping an eye on value. Thanks for your input to the discussion.

Anonymous said...

I wanted an FAL but they (and the magazines) are very, very expensive unless you buy one of the 'FrankenFALs'. I ended up buying an Armalite AR-10 & it's awesome. The only real downside is that you have to buy the mags & parts from Armalite. Someone said that you can retrofit an M1A magazine, but I haven't tried it. Positives: very solid, accurate, reliable rifle. It will consistently deliver 1" groups at 200 yards. I still want a FAL but until then the AR-10 has suited me well.

Anonymous said...

K. here,

I can't attest to quality or anything other than that these guys are apparently just over the mountain in the next valley, local to me, and that they seem to be selling a whole lot of their NATO standard caliber ammunition at the local Walmart stores. Regardless, here's another player in the H&K clone game which you may want to look into...

ZQI Ammo:

Zennith firearms:

Anonymous said...

+1 for a PTR-91. I own an 18" heavy barrel model. With some practice it can be shot offhand, and works very well with a handstop facing the wrong way to allow you to pull the rifle to your shoulder.

You're not going to beat the magazine price without a time machine. I bought most of mine when CTD sold them for $0.99/ea.

I plan on putting the PWS compensator on mine. It does kick harder than an AR-10, for sure. But that huge extractor and heavy bolt carrier = reliable. Parts are super cheap compared to AR-10s. Other than the Saigas it is one of the few rifles that actually like steel cased ammo just fine.

I recommend getting one of the newer models with welded rails and the lighter profile barrel. There really isn't a bad optic for the rifle. Mine currently wears a Meprolight M21 reflex but it has had a Leupold 1-4x and a basic 4x fixed in the past.

Anonymous said...

+1 for a PTR-91. I own an 18" heavy barrel model. With some practice it can be shot offhand, and works very well with a handstop facing the wrong way to allow you to pull the rifle to your shoulder.

You're not going to beat the magazine price without a time machine. I bought most of mine when CTD sold them for $0.99/ea.

I plan on putting the PWS compensator on mine. It does kick harder than an AR-10, for sure. But that huge extractor and heavy bolt carrier = reliable. Parts are super cheap compared to AR-10s. Other than the Saigas it is one of the few rifles that actually like steel cased ammo just fine.

I recommend getting one of the newer models with welded rails and the lighter profile barrel. There really isn't a bad optic for the rifle. Mine currently wears a Meprolight M21 reflex but it has had a Leupold 1-4x and a basic 4x fixed in the past.

AM said...

Even when it was available I didn't shoot my Saiga much. I prefer to lay my 308 down from bolt action rifles, and prefer my semi auto rifles be in 5.56 format.

Any of the semi auto rifles mentioned will work. As will the FNAR, VEPR, and Rem7400 (10 round magazines are available for the old hunting rifle).

If I had to do it over again, I'd put together an AR-10 from parts I bought on sale. Not because it's "better" but because then it would be easier to repair when a barrel is shot out, pin breaks, or spring fails.

Theother Ryan said...

AM, From a logistics perspective the AR-10 certainly offers the widest supply base, especially over the long term. The HK G3 is still alive because PTR is making rifles, ditto for the FN-FAL and DSA. Both have been out of wide production for decades. Those parts aren't getting any cheaper.

The AR-10 platform is going to be the future of even semi common .308's. On the other hand a PTR-91 is pretty cheap. I dunno. Won't be making that decision for awhile so that is OK.

Darren Poole said...

This AR 15 rifle scope is actually for extreme sighting speed. Its superior long-range accuracy suits the best for all AR 15 rifles.

Alica said...

This AR-10 possesses a whole lot assurance although it is some sort of coach break down some sort of software. Quite a few stink in addition to we have a finish deficit of standardization.

Michael Romano said...

Not sure if you're still in the market for an AR-10, or if you've found one already, but I'll add my two cents.

I'm generally a fan of DPMS's .308 stable of rifles, but lately they seem to have lost their focus (e.g. they have way too many models, they introduce new models and discontinue old models at a hurried and erratic pace, and lately there appears to be no standardization even within their own brand).

I'd recommend the relatively-new Ruger SR-762 (piston-driven .308 semi-auto). It's expensive, heavy, and perhaps not as accurate as some of the other AR-10 platforms, but I'll be it's a solid performer and Ruger makes quality gear. I'll bet it'll be reliable and quite durable.

Anonymous said...

I currently have a dsa SA58 rifle. I would stay far away from the fal. I'm sure it was a good rifle in its original configuration. I have had nothing but problems out of my fal.I have tried different types of mags and my rifle has been sent twice to DSA.I am considering getting rid of my fal and getting a PTR91 or AR308 variant.

Deerhunting@site said...

what about AR-15 rifle?

Harold W. Weaver said...

And here I found a blog that I can collect the information about types of rifles, really interesting to read, thanks for share

eric crayon said...

This AR 15 rifle scope is definitely great tool and has sighting speed. It has powerful long-range accuracy and also the best suitable for Ar 15

Patrick Horne said...

Very useful and informative article, I especially love links that you attached in your article. Thank you so much. I am beginner in the gun and rifles topic so those articles with attached links are very useful for me. Hope to see more post from you in this topic.

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