Wednesday, August 24, 2016

Concealed Carry and Self Defense Discussion/ Observations

These are interesting times. I have seen normal people who are neutral about guns arming up. The kind of mid western women who grew up around guns and were ambivalent about them. I suspect men are doing the same but the kinds of men I interact with socially are usually already gun people so I can't say it from personal observation.

A young woman I know recently took a CCW class. She recently got stuck in a traffic jam caused by the BLM crowd and it worried her. So she took a CCW class. Later that night we talked about it and some various related topics.

One of the biggest points that was driven home was minding your own darn business. Anecdotal stories mentioned were about this where CCW holders who were foolish but well meaning ended up shooting people who didn't need to be shot. The grungy looking guy pointing a gun at another guy might be an under cover cop.

This fits pretty directly with my opinion. I am not getting involved in other peoples business unless it is really clear life/ limb/ eyesight are at risk. Two guys fighting isn't my issue. Guy beating up a girl (who I don't know reasonably well) isn't my issue. Guy starts stabbing girl I'll get involved. If I see a crime like say a robbery I am not inclined to get involved.

This is where I have a big issue with that whole sheep dog idea. I carry a gun to protect myself and mine not the whole world. For a whole host of reasons I do not feel the need to act like a non paid cop. Clearly for me and arguably for society people doing that causes more problems then it solves.

Another excellent point came up in the inevitable what if discussion. When it comes to employing a handgun if you are not sure you need to use it then you shouldn't do so. The point was that the kind of situations where a handgun can legally/ ethically be used are pretty clear cut.

Mixed feelings about this. I agree though at the same time I believe in being proactive within reason. Think about  South Narc stuff and Street Robberies and You. First and foremost you potentially have criminal encounters not become full bore crimes against you. Second if things go sideways I would rather be in the best position to win possible. I can draw from concealment in about 1.5 seconds. That drops considerably if my hand is on the gun, also more importantly there is a lot less that can go wrong. Now have the gun out and I'm around .75 of a second without anything (employment of the firearm wise) significant left to go wrong. This is a pretty big grey area. There are lots of potential variables. What makes sense in an empty parking lot with 3 shady guys at 2 am would be completely overkill for a pair of tweener kids who probably just want you to buy them beer in the Safeway parking lot at 7 o'clock on a Friday.

They talked about guns a lot. It was a SIG vs Glock thing with one each older male representatives of teams wheel gun and 1911. This brings up a couple significant points.

Firstly most guys worry about things in exactly the wrong order. We think guns/ gear then skills then legal stuff and prevention. It should be the exact opposite. We should care about avoiding problems/ knowing the right response then shooting skills and after that the gun we carry. A bad ass like Paul Howe or John Mosby is going to win a gunfight with a rusty Charter Arms snubby. Heck a moderately trained guy like me probably will. On the other hand a person without a clue what is going on who can't use a gun can have the best gear and they are next to useless.

Second she showed me a picture of them all sitting around. The reason this was noteworthy was the handguns on the table. Full sized double stack pistols, some of them with lights. My general observation is this is almost intellectually dishonest. Most people simply will not regularly carry one regularly. The joke that when someone says they carry a full sized handgun to ask them to show it to you NOW (and they will mumble an excuse and probably be carrying nothing) comes to mind. I worry some people have an all or nothing idea and instead of being like cool guy John Mosby and carrying a G19/17 with 2 spare mags, medical stuff, etc which is a hassle they instead carry nothing.

I'm done writing for today. Maybe more will come out tomorrow.


Unknown said...

Yep, the sheepdog of society idea is BS. You are responsible for you and your family. In the event someone comes down with the sudden jihadi syndrome, shoot them in the face too. Otherwise, go to the movies, eat dinner, and mind your own.

Tiers are important. I carry a G21 with light attached for work. When I'm off, it's rarely my carry piece. I will either have the G26 or my LCP. Be honest wth yourself and plan accordingly.

Also, train to your gun. A friend of mine just bought a G43 for his first handgun. He began explaining to me how it's the perfect home defense pistol. A training class later, and he's in the market for a mid to full sized pistol.


riverrider said...

roger that, and people try to train too far away. if they shoot a guy, bad or good, they will have some splaining to do with the po po. my wife, motivated but new to handguns(she loves my 30/30 tho, go figure), gets frustrated b/c she can't hit shit at 25 plus yards with her snubby. she's seen too much cop tv. i try to remind her if anything happens it'll be contact distance. she's getting there tho. we just had a guy go full jihad right down the road, stabbed two and tried to saw off a guy's head. too close for comfort. we'll be doing some drills this weekend... have to say i was one with the sheepdog/ sir gallahad complex but i've finally grown out of that. too easy to get shot by other good guys these days, there's a lot of armed folks around here. and the really bad guys have learned to have a slack man covering their ass.

Anonymous said...

I am a old geezer but I still won't carry less than my Glock 23. Every time I leave the house, even just to go fill the car. I still would not pull it unless I absolutely must. Because you don't necessarily know what you are facing. Noted today over at War on Guns site. NOG (You got to ignore the Brits ID of the weapon!)

Robert said...

I do carry a G22 off-duty currently, but have carried my G23 in the past. For me I found there was not a big difference in concealing the G22. So, for non-LEOs your duty is to protect yourself and family. Let LE handle the sheep, but with that said sometime the wolf gets one first!!!!

Anonymous said...

Amen. We have sheep dogs. We give them badges and pay them, and if you want to be one, go sign up for the academy. The beautiful thing about concealed carry is that if the wolf gets past the dog (or the dog is a wolf), the sheep have fangs, too. The fangs might not be as long or sharp, but the wolves will eventually learn that avoiding the dog isn't its only problem. Makes the sheep safer and the dog's life a hell of a lot easier--as long as he's not being shot at by some damn sheep who thinks he's a dog. I know there are a FEW exceptions, but as a rule, there are very few people you should be worried about protecting, and most of them should have the same last name.

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