Showing posts with label single stack 9mm. Show all posts
Showing posts with label single stack 9mm. Show all posts

Saturday, May 30, 2015

Reader Question: Glock 43 vs 17

I tried your contact button but it did not work.

My question is: I have some spare cash laying around and I can pick up a Glock 17 that I have spare parts and mags for, or I can get a Glock 43.  I am wondering if there is a significant difference between the two.  I realize the size thing and the 17 versus 6 thing.  I handled a 43 today and it felt top heavy without a loaded mag, much more so than a 42.  I currently have a S&W 638 and model 10 with a 2 inch barrel, a Keltec P3AT, and a Ruger 101. So I have smaller "deep carry" guns.  I am thinking the money would be better spent on a 17 as my son has one so then I would be looking at a two is one situation, this is why I have the spare parts and mags for the 17.  I carry a 1911 so carrying the 17 would not be a problem.

That or I say piss on it all and buy the Savage A17 that I really don't need but want, or is there something else out there I should consider?

Maybe you can make this into a blog post, I am not expecting a direct answer.

Thanks
Jeff


Ryan here: I'll check out the contact button thing. Onto the question.

I suppose it depends a lot on what you want the gun for. Do you want a different CCW pistol (it doesn't sound like you do) or do you want to stash another Glock in case S hits the F?

In general I am really underwhelmed with single stack 9mm's. Tried it and the whole thing just didn't really work all that well. .j    b b l;lThey are (most would say) too big for pocket carry.They are really not that much smaller (.89-.95 width vs 1.2ish) than double stack semi auto's but hold a lot fewer bullets. Also since the butt is necessarily uniform throughout they are harder to conceal than a J frame even if the dimensions are comparable. When people, as they almost universally do get an extended mag so they have more grip these guns are as long as a compact (G19) sized pistol. Personally I carry the Ruger LCP in and around my little sleepy town and the Glock 19 when I venture further, carry a lot of cash, etc.

As to the Glock 43 in general. For the sake of full disclosure I have little to no experience with this gun, can't remember if I've even fondled one or not. I think it is a bit expensive since there are so many competitive guns at lower prices (Kahr CW series, Ruger LC9, S&W Shield, etc). Still it has value because it should bring Glock reliability to a market with some questionable guns (Kel Tech, Diamondback, etc). With the concealed carry market booming and people loving Glock 9mm's I'm sure they will sell a bunch; this guy just isn't interested. I find that with a decent belt and pants bought 2 inches larger with a pistol in mind I can conceal a similarly sized double stack pistol as easily as a single stack. Until technology advances to the point where we are getting single stack 9mm's in the Walther PPK size range I don't see that opinion changing.

One of the biggest benefits about Glocks is that so many parts are inner changeable. For Glocks in 9mm and 40 S&W I believe the only size specific parts are barrel, slide, recoil spring and frame. This means my parts box for the G19 could probably fix a friends full sized .40 cal G22. Magazines are downwards compatible (a G26 can take 19 and 17 mags, a 19 can take 17 mags).

Paul Howe uses a Glock 26 for CCW and a G19 with a light for a duty type setup. Aside from G26 mags they both take all the same ammo, mags, parts, etc.  I don't mention that entirely from a fan boy perspective but A) it bears on this discussion and B) it's interesting to see the gear/ firearm choices really experienced people make.

As to .17 honestly I don't get it. I guess it can theoretically be a bit more accurate but if my 10/22 won't do the job I'll grab Project AR. Sort of along these lines I once looked at getting a .22 mag rifle and decided against it.

To your specific question I would go with the Glock 17 especially since you have a few small CCW type pistols. However to better answer the question I would consider a smaller Glock like a 19 or 26. I would lean to a G19 since your bench is pretty deep on small guns. That would give you compatability with the G17 and a slightly smaller gun that has a lot of bullets yet is realistic to conceal in anything less than a jacket.

So those are my thoughts on that. What do the readers think?

Wednesday, December 3, 2014

Random Thoughts

Today I spent some time reading about Operation Gladio the NATO stay behind plan for a USSR invasion of Europe. The plans and logistics alone deserve significant study. The actions of the stay behind forces in all manner of political shenanigans range from quite interesting to complete conspiracy fodder.

That lead to thinking about caches. Always more work that could be done there. Some I could probably do now and some for that mythical future time when resources are available. It also brought up the point of commo. You really need to set those sort of plans up in advance to have a decent chance of them working. If there are people you want to talk to it would be prudent to get those plans set up sooner instead of later.

Also it seems the younger chickens are starting to lay as our egg production is definitely up. That is good. We are getting a lot closer to producing what we use or at least a good percentage of it which makes me happy.

Gas prices dropping is an interesting development. Turns out the Saudi's and majority of OPEC must want to hurt Iran and Russia enough to take the short to mid term hit. The extra cash going back into the family budget is sure nice though. 

Between baby sitting two kids and a baby this weekend and Walker getting sick we are pretty beat.

John Mosby's second book is written. He is currently selling E Books and a physical book will follow and the E Book (for the very reasonable price of $15) will not be offered again. This book is more about the underground, logistics and living in a collapse type situation. I am psyched for the physical book to come out.

Max Velocity is offering $100 off his January Combat Team Tactics class.

The folks at Lucky Gunner did a pretty interesting review on the Glock 42. Personally if I were to get a .380 it would be of the tiny pocket variety (Ruger LCP, etc) .380 and if I went bigger it would be a Walther PPK but I can see how this gun might fit some needs. I can't wait for Glock to make a single stack 9mm and will likely sell my Kahr when they do.

If I had the jingle left in my pockets I would purchase  308 - 147 gr FMJ-BT - PMC - 500 Rounds for $335.
James Yeager did a video titled 'Ballistic Baller on a Budget'. He looked at two guns for under a grand My choice in that scenario would be a Yugo PAP M-70 and an S&W SDVE-9. Taking those two guns home for under a grand would be quite reasonable and a solid combo. Between the CZ-75/ Cannic and the M-70/ SDVE 9 choices it's 6 of one and a half dozen of the other though my choices offer better spare parts availability. Anyway that is what's floating around in my head today.

Saturday, November 1, 2014

A Discussion of Single Stack 9mm Utility and Applications

Everyday Carry Solutions brought up 'The Case for the 9mm Micro Pistol' which I caught via Defensive Training Group.This is a discussion I wanted to have anyway so it seemed like as good of a time as any.

We talked about single stack 9mm's not too long ago. I also did a decent, if brief, round up of different single stack 9mm options. After considerable deliberation I ended up purchasing a Kahr CW9.

Those experiences as well as several years of very consistent carry are the foundation from which I write this post.

I do have a bone to pick with the Everyday Carry Solutions post. The categorization used thereon is solely focused on barrel length which is unnecessarily simplistic and thus inaccurate. By the barrel length only method of categorization the enormous Ruger Alaska with it's 2.5in barrel is a 'Micro Pistol'. That example, while obviously intentionally picked to make a point, illustrates the weakness of this method. I would humbly submit that height (bottom of grip to top of gun) as well as width definitely matter and weight is a consideration also. Additionally since these guns tend to be carried inside the waistband an extra half inch of barrel is probably not an issue. Generally speaking height makes a gun print more and thickness (width) makes it harder to carry comfortably without purposefully buying clothes to do so.

The weakness of the method used by EDC Solutions is that some of the guns shown in the photo with the article are actually taller and thus by one dimension harder to conceal than the G26.

Personally I would say all the guns being discussed here are in the subcompact range. To me it breaks down about like this:
Full sized- Service pistols like the Glock 17 and S&W Model 19. 4-5in barrels and grips that extend below the average sized hand giving enough room to comfortably connect with the off hand in a normal grip.
Compact- Glock 19 and similarly sized weapons. Grip fills average sized hand though off hand probably does not have purchase. Roughly 3.5-4in barrels
Subcompact-The S&W Shield and my Kahr CW9 are pushing the top end of the size range pretty hard on the top end. Average sized hand will have partial pinky contact on this end. G26 and J frames are pretty standard.On the bottom end I arbitrarily cut off around the Kahr CM/ PM 9, and Sig P290. These guns are generally considered not small enough to pocket carry at the top end but work into it when we get to J frame and smaller. The Sig P238/938 is kind of on the fence for the bottom end of this category and the top of the next.
Tiny- These range from your little .380's like the Kel Tech P3AT, Kahr P380 through the Beretta Mouse guns in .22-.32 all the way down to the uuber tiny NAA revolvers. These are guns you could put in a shirt pocket and forget about.

Anyway now that my slightly different take on the matter from that otherwise excellent article is covered let us get back to the topic of the single stack 9mm.

The combination of modern engineering/ materials with the rise of concealed carry laws across the US have made for an explosion of new guns in the subcompact to tiny range.

The most obvious application for the single stack 9mm in the subcompact size range is concealed carry. One must do their own risk assessment but I think an 8-9rd 9mm is going to be plenty for most scenarios.

I'm not in love with these for home defense weapons due to round capacity and the inability (except oddly the Kel Tech PF9) to mount a light. As such for the 'one tool' spiral I don't favor these pistols. That being said one could make an argument for a handgun they WILL carry and the larger guns in this range like the Kahr CW9 and S&W Shield are large enough to manipulate in a reasonable manner.

For a back up type weapon there could be options, especially when we get to the J frame to Kahr PM/CM 9 size range. Personally I rarely carry 2 pistols but I guess the option could be useful for some.

Anyway I think that about wraps it up. Thoughts?

Sunday, September 7, 2014

Kahr CW9 First Impressions

Carries very well. Not too long and quite thin.

Fit and finish seem quite nice.

The trigger is, at this very initial impression, pretty nice. It is heavier than say a DA revolver and lighter than a Glock. The length of pull is DA revolver ish but it is lighter and crisp. The weight did seem to get a little bit heavier towards the end but not bad. It shoots like I would expect from a nice S&W that had some trigger work and a lot of rounds downrange. If I purchased a revolver that had a DA trigger pull like this I would be thrilled.

The sights seem nice enough.

As to accuracy. My initial shooting was not exactly ideal for testing accuracy. I think after a couple boxes of ammo to really get used to the trigger and the sights the gun has a lot of potential.

As to reliability. I only put 14 rounds through it. 7x 9mm Wolf FMJ and 7x my personal defensive load Federal Classic 115 gr Personal Defense. Both were 100%.

Have to put some more rounds downrange before I will trust it enough to carry but I think this pistol is going to work out well for me.


Saturday, September 6, 2014

Single Stack 9mm Winner Is..................

The Kahr CW9. There has been a lot of discussion about this. I have spent tons of time watching and reading reviews as well as combing over data points on different handguns.

So why this one?

As to caliber- I did  consider a .380 but given the proliferation of decent to good single stack 9mm's into the Walther PPK size range that used to be .380 domain something like a PPK or a Bersa did not make a ton of sense. The micro (KT P3AT, S&W Body Guard, Kahr P/C 380, etc) sized .380's are, aside from being chambered in .380 not typically guns most people shoot real well. I see them more as a non permissive environment/ deep carry type gun than a regular all the time carry piece.

Since the option was available I chose 9mm because it is a cartridge already on inventory and sufficiently potent for the task at hand.

As to size- This is about as small of a handgun as I can really get a good grip on. For shorter pistols you can get larger extended mags but the idea of getting one knowing you will use an extended mag all the time is kinda missing the point.

Quite a lot of guns fall really close to the specs of this one. The Kel Tek PF9 is very close though slightly (.88 to .9) thinner and considerably lighter (12 ounces to 15.8). The Shield is little bit thicker at .95 (due to a more curved grip vs the slab side Gen 1 Glock like Kahr. Both of these guns have 3in or close barrels while the Kahr has a 3.5in. Of all the ways I was going to be going the guns were really close in dimensions.

Why Kahr?- The three guns that showed real promise were the Kel Tek PF9, the S&W Shield and the Kahr CW9 (CM9). For the Kel Tek the lemon rate comparable to a bad used car lot was a real problem. In my mind the Kel Tek PF 9 is a price point gun. Given the modest difference between it and other offerings (a hundred bucks or a bit more) I pretty much eliminated it as an option. That is a shame because it manages to be very nice in the hand while still being a smaller package than the other options.

As to the Kahr vs Shield that is a more complicated conversation. I prefer the grip angle as well as ergonomics and controls of the Kahr; probably because they are very Glock like. Could give or take the Shield safety but do not like the big take down lever and am not in love with the trigger.

Kahr's QA/QC is not quite up to the level of S&W and they produce some guns that have issues. However worst case once those issues are addressed they seem to be good guns. This somewhat higher than it should be lemon rate [Though still probably better than Kel Tek which is probably better than Diamondback which is probably better than Jimenez Arms.] was initially off putting to me. However I realized that this isn't my first/ only handgun. Heck it isn't my first/ only CCW type handgun. I'll do some shooting and if it has issues get it fixed.

Also I could get a CW9 today for $50 less than an M&P Shield.

So far I am pleased with the purchase. Fit and finish are great and it is a a pretty little gun, well at least as pretty as a polymer striker fired pistol can be. It carries very well.

I hope to take it shooting tomorrow to make sure the thing goes bang.

So that ends the quest of the week. Maybe this winter I'll be in the market for a little .380.






Sunday, August 31, 2014

Single Stack 9mm Rabbit Hole, General CCW and Random Thoughts

I talked a good bit about this recently and it has been on my mind for awhile. Recently I came to a realization on the topic. The type of firearm dimensions I am talking simply do not support the concept of use I had in mind. The combination of enough grip (height) to handle decently yet quite short to theoretically allow pocket carry in 9mm from a company that builds to a decently professional standard is a bridge too far. Granted it isn't looking for a 20 round 10mm the size of a Beretta .22 Bobcat but it's still a bit too aggressive all the same.

The truth in the back of my head that it took some time for me to admit is that I have actually been talking about two pistols. The first pistol is a single stack 9mm with enough grip to get a decent grip and thus be reasonably accurate. Rough stats would be about a 3in barrel and height over 4 in but under 5, probably in the 4.5in range. Weight dictates a polymer frame and anything in that class is plenty light. The second pistol is a tiny pocket sized .380 acp. Something in the Kahr P380/ S&W Bodyguard W/O laser/ Kel Tek P3AT size range.

I then stumbled into the 'what to buy first' train of thought. After looking at both options I took a deep breath and got back to my original intent. My original intent was to acquire a thin subcompact (if narrowly) single stack 9mm that would be comfortable to carry IWB and be more accurate with a higher round count than the S&W 642.

So it is pretty apparent to me the 9mm needs to come first and potentially down the road maybe a .380 will come into play.

So where does that leave me? The Kahr CW9 is a viable option though it's Shield sized. Of the two I prefer the Shield. The Kel Tek fits well in my hand and is a nice balance of size but well I would be lying if I said Kel Tek makes consistently reliable guns to a profession standard. Certainly some of them work, Archer Garret loves his F9 and P3AT. However I do not feel like rolling the lemon dice, especially since I have the additional $50-100 to buy a well built weapon with a nominal couple percentage point dud rate (that exists with any good product it is just life).

Anyway I am looking hard at the Shield. Honestly all roads seem to keep coming back there anyway. I really wanted one maybe two years ago but they were brand new, untested which concerned me and unobtanium. Fast forward a couple years and whatever minor issues existed then have long been addressed. Availability is pretty much full and correspondingly prices are down a little bit. Seems like a good time to snag one.

So that is where I am with this today. I'm leaning hard towards the Shield though I might just get a .380 or bin the whole damn thing due to confusion.

What do you think?
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